Hi, my name is Terry Brooks. I've been alive for 81 years. I have been writing for longer, but I've been published for 51 years.
Hi, I'm Delilah S. Dawson, a published writer with over 36 works, I believe, spanning all sorts of genres, and I am the very lucky person who gets to carry on writing Shannara with Terry Brooks.
Delilah and I have known each other for 12 years, something like that.
Ten years, longer than that. Since 2017, I think.
So, a long time. We've known each other for a long time. We've always gotten along really well. We've spent a lot of time in barroom situations, which made us fairly well acquainted with each other, along with other attributes of the same nature. I know her work, and I like her personality. My major concern was that if I do this thing, it's got to be with somebody I can get along with. Somebody that's not going to turn out to be the worst mistake of my life, like my last couple of marriages.
Instead, I think that Delilah is exactly the right person to do this. She's already written the next book, so I've seen it, and it's beautiful. I'm very happy she's doing it, and she's been very gracious about the whole thing.
I like what I did. I did what I wanted to do. I was very lucky the whole time with everything that happened to me. I had great advice. I had great editorial help. Fans have always been good to me, probably better to me than just about anybody else in the field, from everything I hear.
When I decided to give this up, I did so without regret or a sense that somehow I'd missed out on anything or that I should have done something more. I did exactly what I wanted the whole time, and I've been very lucky.
I kind of feel stunned still, a little bit, and very grateful. It's not every day you get an email inviting you to do something so special and to work with such a great writer and such a world that means so much to so many of us. It is big shoes to fill, and I do like big shoes, so that works.
Like Terry said, we've known each other for a long time, and anytime we're at a convention together, we get to have a meal, which is wonderful. We've never gotten into a fistfight, which is very valuable for this.
That's right. Not even a little argument at all. It's just been an absolute joy.
I'll tell you what it looks like. It looks like I don't do anything and she does everything. It's great. From my perspective, it's the perfect dream. Basically, it's not quite that simplistic, but I'm not doing the heavy-duty work anymore.
I work with the ideas and with some small amount of rewriting or whatever, but mostly I just let Delilah do it. She calls me up if she has a question or checks in with me if there's a part of the history that is vague for some reason, so I can draw on my now-limited memory to try and help out with it.
By and large, it's working very well. I think it's kind of like each of us has to understand where the other stands, and we do that very well. I have to understand that I have to let go, and Delilah has to do the writing. I have to stay out of her way and let her do her job, not be in there with both feet saying, "Well, I wouldn't have said it like that," or "I wouldn't have done it that way." I just comment where it's useful and otherwise stay out of the way.
I think that's where co-writers get into trouble a lot of the time. They spend a lot of time carping at each other. I didn't want that at all because I'm just not that kind of person. I'm too sweet.
And my job is just not to disappoint Terry Brooks, which is a big expectation. But it hasn't happened yet. Knock on wood. So far, so good.
I don't have any wood.
No, we've got it down there.
Okay, there we go. Under the bells.
We started out with some notes, and I'd read some of your writing on this book and got to see the feel of what the heart of the book was, what was important to you, and where it was going. Then we developed an outline and worked on that with our editor, Anne Groell, who's been your longtime editor and is wonderful.
When we had an outline we liked, you all set me loose like a rabid dog, and I whipped out 10,000 words and sent those over to see if we were hitting the right tone and the right notes. You all seemed pretty happy, so I wrote the rest of the book.
I write a lot of IP. I've been very fortunate to get to work with Del Rey a lot of times on Star Wars, Minecraft, and most recently Dungeons & Dragons: Ravenloft, Heir of Strahd. I feel like it's this very niche skill of immersing yourself in the world, learning the lore, getting a feel for the voice, the tone, and the pacing that the readers are looking for, and showing off the world in the best way while really letting yourself immerse in it.
My kids can guess what I'm writing because there's a big stack of books by the side of my bed, and they're like, "What is this?"
I've got the maps, I've got my World of Shannara books, and that's kind of all I read for a while to really get into the zone and pick up the language. What you notice in the world is so important to how the characters see the world and how the reader experiences it. There's a very particular way that Shannara presents itself to you, and I really wanted to be true to that.
And she's very good at adapting. She's quick. She's accurate. The only thing I bring to this that's important is that I wrote the first 30-some books.
You're just the god, that's all.
I'm just a god, but I'm a benevolent god. In that role, my job is to oversee, to the extent that it needs it, whatever Delilah is doing and to offer help when it's asked for, and otherwise just stay out of the way.
We want the classic Shannara reader—the person who fell in love with those books in the '70s or '80s—to open this book and feel that same welcome and feel like they are in the world they want to be in. We don't want them to feel shocked or uncomfortable or think, "This isn't how this was." We want them to have a fluid experience of this world and these characters.
Yeah, we're experimenting with that right now because we haven't got a new book out yet. That's when people will start to say, "I don't like this," or "This is really good. I love this." It's hard to foresee how that's going to go.
But if it goes the way it's gone with us during the production of this thing, it'll be smooth sailing. I don't think we'll have any problems at all. We're looking at this for the long haul, too. We're not looking at just a couple of books. We're looking at books down the road, depending on which one of us wears out first, which I can probably guarantee is going to be me, to see how this is all going to develop and where we're going to take it.
If the readership says they want it, then we want to be prepared to make it happen.
I don't worry too much about new fans, frankly. I think we're writing Tolkienesque fiction. I was writing it, and now you are writing Tolkienesque fiction. I haven't noticed any of Tolkien's fans falling off, and we get people of all ages. My readers have always been from 8 to 80 without exception, and they're all enthusiastic about certain aspects of what we do.
I think the trick is not to disappoint them with what you're giving them and to make them feel like they've spent their money well and are getting a good story in return, and that you're not leading them off into the jungle somewhere where they can die of thirst.
It also feels like there are several different on-ramps into Shannara over the years where you can find the area that's really going to appeal to you. With Galaphile, your most recent one, Galaphile is a new on-ramp that can act as a gateway to the world if you've never been in Shannara before. You don't have to start with Sword or a later book. You can start with Galaphile and begin a new continuation.
We're dealing with roughly 3,000 years of history, maybe a little more than that. The series has been all over the place in that time period. I didn't write it in sequence. I wrote it in groups, then I went back, then I went forward again. It's been up and down the whole time.
The readers are used to the fact that different things have happened at different times. What they really want is a grounding in what the world is, how you see the world, and how it developed. Being consistent is what Delilah and I are going to work on most. We're not treading on each other's feet with what's going on within that world, and so far that has not been any kind of problem at all.
Hi, I'm Delilah S. Dawson, a published writer with over 36 works, I believe, spanning all sorts of genres, and I am the very lucky person who gets to carry on writing Shannara with Terry Brooks.
Delilah and I have known each other for 12 years, something like that.
Ten years, longer than that. Since 2017, I think.
So, a long time. We've known each other for a long time. We've always gotten along really well. We've spent a lot of time in barroom situations, which made us fairly well acquainted with each other, along with other attributes of the same nature. I know her work, and I like her personality. My major concern was that if I do this thing, it's got to be with somebody I can get along with. Somebody that's not going to turn out to be the worst mistake of my life, like my last couple of marriages.
Instead, I think that Delilah is exactly the right person to do this. She's already written the next book, so I've seen it, and it's beautiful. I'm very happy she's doing it, and she's been very gracious about the whole thing.
I like what I did. I did what I wanted to do. I was very lucky the whole time with everything that happened to me. I had great advice. I had great editorial help. Fans have always been good to me, probably better to me than just about anybody else in the field, from everything I hear.
When I decided to give this up, I did so without regret or a sense that somehow I'd missed out on anything or that I should have done something more. I did exactly what I wanted the whole time, and I've been very lucky.
I kind of feel stunned still, a little bit, and very grateful. It's not every day you get an email inviting you to do something so special and to work with such a great writer and such a world that means so much to so many of us. It is big shoes to fill, and I do like big shoes, so that works.
Like Terry said, we've known each other for a long time, and anytime we're at a convention together, we get to have a meal, which is wonderful. We've never gotten into a fistfight, which is very valuable for this.
That's right. Not even a little argument at all. It's just been an absolute joy.
I'll tell you what it looks like. It looks like I don't do anything and she does everything. It's great. From my perspective, it's the perfect dream. Basically, it's not quite that simplistic, but I'm not doing the heavy-duty work anymore.
I work with the ideas and with some small amount of rewriting or whatever, but mostly I just let Delilah do it. She calls me up if she has a question or checks in with me if there's a part of the history that is vague for some reason, so I can draw on my now-limited memory to try and help out with it.
By and large, it's working very well. I think it's kind of like each of us has to understand where the other stands, and we do that very well. I have to understand that I have to let go, and Delilah has to do the writing. I have to stay out of her way and let her do her job, not be in there with both feet saying, "Well, I wouldn't have said it like that," or "I wouldn't have done it that way." I just comment where it's useful and otherwise stay out of the way.
I think that's where co-writers get into trouble a lot of the time. They spend a lot of time carping at each other. I didn't want that at all because I'm just not that kind of person. I'm too sweet.
And my job is just not to disappoint Terry Brooks, which is a big expectation. But it hasn't happened yet. Knock on wood. So far, so good.
I don't have any wood.
No, we've got it down there.
Okay, there we go. Under the bells.
We started out with some notes, and I'd read some of your writing on this book and got to see the feel of what the heart of the book was, what was important to you, and where it was going. Then we developed an outline and worked on that with our editor, Anne Groell, who's been your longtime editor and is wonderful.
When we had an outline we liked, you all set me loose like a rabid dog, and I whipped out 10,000 words and sent those over to see if we were hitting the right tone and the right notes. You all seemed pretty happy, so I wrote the rest of the book.
I write a lot of IP. I've been very fortunate to get to work with Del Rey a lot of times on Star Wars, Minecraft, and most recently Dungeons & Dragons: Ravenloft, Heir of Strahd. I feel like it's this very niche skill of immersing yourself in the world, learning the lore, getting a feel for the voice, the tone, and the pacing that the readers are looking for, and showing off the world in the best way while really letting yourself immerse in it.
My kids can guess what I'm writing because there's a big stack of books by the side of my bed, and they're like, "What is this?"
I've got the maps, I've got my World of Shannara books, and that's kind of all I read for a while to really get into the zone and pick up the language. What you notice in the world is so important to how the characters see the world and how the reader experiences it. There's a very particular way that Shannara presents itself to you, and I really wanted to be true to that.
And she's very good at adapting. She's quick. She's accurate. The only thing I bring to this that's important is that I wrote the first 30-some books.
You're just the god, that's all.
I'm just a god, but I'm a benevolent god. In that role, my job is to oversee, to the extent that it needs it, whatever Delilah is doing and to offer help when it's asked for, and otherwise just stay out of the way.
We want the classic Shannara reader—the person who fell in love with those books in the '70s or '80s—to open this book and feel that same welcome and feel like they are in the world they want to be in. We don't want them to feel shocked or uncomfortable or think, "This isn't how this was." We want them to have a fluid experience of this world and these characters.
Yeah, we're experimenting with that right now because we haven't got a new book out yet. That's when people will start to say, "I don't like this," or "This is really good. I love this." It's hard to foresee how that's going to go.
But if it goes the way it's gone with us during the production of this thing, it'll be smooth sailing. I don't think we'll have any problems at all. We're looking at this for the long haul, too. We're not looking at just a couple of books. We're looking at books down the road, depending on which one of us wears out first, which I can probably guarantee is going to be me, to see how this is all going to develop and where we're going to take it.
If the readership says they want it, then we want to be prepared to make it happen.
I don't worry too much about new fans, frankly. I think we're writing Tolkienesque fiction. I was writing it, and now you are writing Tolkienesque fiction. I haven't noticed any of Tolkien's fans falling off, and we get people of all ages. My readers have always been from 8 to 80 without exception, and they're all enthusiastic about certain aspects of what we do.
I think the trick is not to disappoint them with what you're giving them and to make them feel like they've spent their money well and are getting a good story in return, and that you're not leading them off into the jungle somewhere where they can die of thirst.
It also feels like there are several different on-ramps into Shannara over the years where you can find the area that's really going to appeal to you. With Galaphile, your most recent one, Galaphile is a new on-ramp that can act as a gateway to the world if you've never been in Shannara before. You don't have to start with Sword or a later book. You can start with Galaphile and begin a new continuation.
We're dealing with roughly 3,000 years of history, maybe a little more than that. The series has been all over the place in that time period. I didn't write it in sequence. I wrote it in groups, then I went back, then I went forward again. It's been up and down the whole time.
The readers are used to the fact that different things have happened at different times. What they really want is a grounding in what the world is, how you see the world, and how it developed. Being consistent is what Delilah and I are going to work on most. We're not treading on each other's feet with what's going on within that world, and so far that has not been any kind of problem at all.
My first book came out in 2012, and as I got involved in comic cons, starting with Phoenix Comic-Con, I was really excited about networking and meeting other writers. I was a pretty lonely kid who didn't meet many people who were like me. I felt like I was an alien.
Then I started meeting other writers, and it was like, "Oh, here's the other aliens. Finally, some people I can relate to." I met people in publishing as well—book people.
I remember going to Phoenix Comic-Con and seeing the Del Rey booth with the big books and just thinking, "Golly, my goal is to be published by Del Rey." That was something I really wanted to do.
It was so exciting to get to work with them. I remember the first thing I got to write for them, which was The Perfect Weapon for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. It was such a thrill to see my book up on the Comic-Con banner for the first time. I love Del Rey.
I am so old that Del Rey didn't exist when I wrote Sword. I only came upon it because my first submission was to DAW Books, and Donald Wollheim wrote me back and said, "I like this book, but it's so big and I'm a little worried about where it's going. Why don't you send it over to Judy-Lynn and Lester del Rey at Del Rey Books, which is brand new?"
I had no idea who they were and no idea what to expect when I met them, which is another story all unto itself.
I feel honored by the fact that I was there before almost anybody else and that I got picked up by Lester and Judy-Lynn del Rey, whom I respect tremendously, even though they beat me into the ground a number of times along the way, because that's what writers do to younger writers and so forth.
I'm 81. I hate it. It's not what it was. I want it to go back. I want it to be what it was when I came in.
I didn't understand that before, but I'm understanding it now. My father was like this, too. I think you want it back the way it was, not because you regret that things are changing, but because that's what happens.
I'm pretty happy with it, though. I've met a lot of the new young writers, and they're exciting and enthusiastic. I've read a lot of their work, and it's astonishing. Some of it is just amazing.
I think you have to understand that everything changes. There are a lot of things I don't like about the world, but am I going to change it? No, I'm not going to change it. So you might as well not be a curmudgeon and sit around griping about stuff. Just accept things for the way they are and try to get along with them.
I could go on about this, but you would get bored fast if you're not already bored stiff, so we'll let it go.
I tell you, though, I try to think of what it would be like to have to type out my work on a typewriter every time you needed a copy and then mail it to someone and say, "Well, this is all I've got. Here you go."
It just sounds like such a different world than the one I've known. I've always worked on laptops since I started writing books.
You know, I get asked all the time, "What were the most important things that happened to you in your life?"
I say two things.
One, I learned how to type early.
Yeah.
So by the time computers came along, I knew what to do with them.
And the other thing was that I learned how to speak in public early because my parents forced me to go out for debate.
Oh wow.
I was a state champion.
That's a lot of work.
Yeah, I believe it. It is a lot of work.
Well, then you went into being a lawyer.
So it all transferred.
Well, yeah, it all transferred, but you notice I got out of that.
You have to make your choices in life. I'm glad I am what I am. I wouldn't be anything else.
I'm sure you feel the same way.
Oh, 100%.
Okay, there you go. That's why we get along so well, because we agree on so much.
I want the fans to understand that I am 100% convinced that this young lady here is going to do the job, and she's going to do it well. She's an extraordinarily talented writer.
I want this to be a smooth transition. I will be involved to the extent that I can be useful, and I'm not going to be involved beyond that. I'm just not that kind of person who's going to sit there and look over someone's shoulder.
There's a story about Lester del Rey told by a famous science fiction writer—I'm trying to remember who it was.
Who's the strange science fiction writer?
Yeah, that one.
Not Asimov?
Not Asimov. Anyway, he was rooming with Lester for a time.
During that period, he would work on writing his books, and Lester would walk into the room, stand behind him for a while, and watch him write.
Then—whap!—he'd hit him with a wad of paper and say, "Don't ever write that way."
Then he'd make a criticism and walk away again.
So the writer would hunch over, go back to writing, and then a little later—whap!—again.
Like standing over a dog with a cattle prod.
Exactly. Just like that.
I thought it was amazing that he went on to be a writer without turning out to be totally weird. But he did.
That was Lester, for sure. That's how he worked. It was tough going, but if you get disciplined early enough in the craft, it's a lot easier later on when you start getting kicked around for something that didn't work out.
You have to learn to take criticism. You have to learn to understand that a lot of other people know better than you do and not be afraid to adjust your expectations and abilities.
I think it's also important to note that these books aren't being written by me and handed to a stranger to publish before Terry discovers them one day.
We're back and forth on everything. You read every word, your longtime editor reads every word, and we're working together. So you're involved in every part of this.
I'm not going to be doing anything that you wouldn't want.
No, and if you did, I'd catch it.
You'd hit me with the wad of paper.
No, I wouldn't do that.
Yeah, you would.
No, I wouldn't. I don't operate that way. I'm not good with that sort of thing.
My job is not to criticize but to steer in a useful and reasonable way.
But you're involved at every point along the way, so the fans need to know that anything that happens is done with your blessing.
Basically, we start at the beginning with the storyline, which we work out together. A lot of times I don't know exactly what she's going to write, and I don't think that's a problem.
Then she'll submit 50 pages or something like that. I'll read them. I'll comment on them if I have anything to say.
Meanwhile, she'll continue writing the next 50 pages or whatever.
Then all of a sudden she's written 200 pages.
Drives me crazy.
You know what I really enjoyed? Shannara is so long-running that it's hard to know every single thing in it, but the first mountain cat that I named had already been named a mountain cat there. We were already thinking in parallel.
Yeah, it's true that you pick up on things pretty fast like that.
I've never been a complicated writer, so you can figure out an awful lot of what I'm going to do because I'm predictable in a lot of ways about those kinds of things.
Although I will trick you now and again.
Then I started meeting other writers, and it was like, "Oh, here's the other aliens. Finally, some people I can relate to." I met people in publishing as well—book people.
I remember going to Phoenix Comic-Con and seeing the Del Rey booth with the big books and just thinking, "Golly, my goal is to be published by Del Rey." That was something I really wanted to do.
It was so exciting to get to work with them. I remember the first thing I got to write for them, which was The Perfect Weapon for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. It was such a thrill to see my book up on the Comic-Con banner for the first time. I love Del Rey.
I am so old that Del Rey didn't exist when I wrote Sword. I only came upon it because my first submission was to DAW Books, and Donald Wollheim wrote me back and said, "I like this book, but it's so big and I'm a little worried about where it's going. Why don't you send it over to Judy-Lynn and Lester del Rey at Del Rey Books, which is brand new?"
I had no idea who they were and no idea what to expect when I met them, which is another story all unto itself.
I feel honored by the fact that I was there before almost anybody else and that I got picked up by Lester and Judy-Lynn del Rey, whom I respect tremendously, even though they beat me into the ground a number of times along the way, because that's what writers do to younger writers and so forth.
I'm 81. I hate it. It's not what it was. I want it to go back. I want it to be what it was when I came in.
I didn't understand that before, but I'm understanding it now. My father was like this, too. I think you want it back the way it was, not because you regret that things are changing, but because that's what happens.
I'm pretty happy with it, though. I've met a lot of the new young writers, and they're exciting and enthusiastic. I've read a lot of their work, and it's astonishing. Some of it is just amazing.
I think you have to understand that everything changes. There are a lot of things I don't like about the world, but am I going to change it? No, I'm not going to change it. So you might as well not be a curmudgeon and sit around griping about stuff. Just accept things for the way they are and try to get along with them.
I could go on about this, but you would get bored fast if you're not already bored stiff, so we'll let it go.
I tell you, though, I try to think of what it would be like to have to type out my work on a typewriter every time you needed a copy and then mail it to someone and say, "Well, this is all I've got. Here you go."
It just sounds like such a different world than the one I've known. I've always worked on laptops since I started writing books.
You know, I get asked all the time, "What were the most important things that happened to you in your life?"
I say two things.
One, I learned how to type early.
Yeah.
So by the time computers came along, I knew what to do with them.
And the other thing was that I learned how to speak in public early because my parents forced me to go out for debate.
Oh wow.
I was a state champion.
That's a lot of work.
Yeah, I believe it. It is a lot of work.
Well, then you went into being a lawyer.
So it all transferred.
Well, yeah, it all transferred, but you notice I got out of that.
You have to make your choices in life. I'm glad I am what I am. I wouldn't be anything else.
I'm sure you feel the same way.
Oh, 100%.
Okay, there you go. That's why we get along so well, because we agree on so much.
I want the fans to understand that I am 100% convinced that this young lady here is going to do the job, and she's going to do it well. She's an extraordinarily talented writer.
I want this to be a smooth transition. I will be involved to the extent that I can be useful, and I'm not going to be involved beyond that. I'm just not that kind of person who's going to sit there and look over someone's shoulder.
There's a story about Lester del Rey told by a famous science fiction writer—I'm trying to remember who it was.
Who's the strange science fiction writer?
Yeah, that one.
Not Asimov?
Not Asimov. Anyway, he was rooming with Lester for a time.
During that period, he would work on writing his books, and Lester would walk into the room, stand behind him for a while, and watch him write.
Then—whap!—he'd hit him with a wad of paper and say, "Don't ever write that way."
Then he'd make a criticism and walk away again.
So the writer would hunch over, go back to writing, and then a little later—whap!—again.
Like standing over a dog with a cattle prod.
Exactly. Just like that.
I thought it was amazing that he went on to be a writer without turning out to be totally weird. But he did.
That was Lester, for sure. That's how he worked. It was tough going, but if you get disciplined early enough in the craft, it's a lot easier later on when you start getting kicked around for something that didn't work out.
You have to learn to take criticism. You have to learn to understand that a lot of other people know better than you do and not be afraid to adjust your expectations and abilities.
I think it's also important to note that these books aren't being written by me and handed to a stranger to publish before Terry discovers them one day.
We're back and forth on everything. You read every word, your longtime editor reads every word, and we're working together. So you're involved in every part of this.
I'm not going to be doing anything that you wouldn't want.
No, and if you did, I'd catch it.
You'd hit me with the wad of paper.
No, I wouldn't do that.
Yeah, you would.
No, I wouldn't. I don't operate that way. I'm not good with that sort of thing.
My job is not to criticize but to steer in a useful and reasonable way.
But you're involved at every point along the way, so the fans need to know that anything that happens is done with your blessing.
Basically, we start at the beginning with the storyline, which we work out together. A lot of times I don't know exactly what she's going to write, and I don't think that's a problem.
Then she'll submit 50 pages or something like that. I'll read them. I'll comment on them if I have anything to say.
Meanwhile, she'll continue writing the next 50 pages or whatever.
Then all of a sudden she's written 200 pages.
Drives me crazy.
You know what I really enjoyed? Shannara is so long-running that it's hard to know every single thing in it, but the first mountain cat that I named had already been named a mountain cat there. We were already thinking in parallel.
Yeah, it's true that you pick up on things pretty fast like that.
I've never been a complicated writer, so you can figure out an awful lot of what I'm going to do because I'm predictable in a lot of ways about those kinds of things.
Although I will trick you now and again.
Comments
Post a Comment
Share your best book review and recommendation